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Post by rabiya on Jul 29, 2006 14:49:24 GMT
assalamualaikum on the profile update it asks for my pir-o-murshid.....wht is this?? wa'alaikumasalaam Rabi'ya Post edited to adjust topic title. Admin
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Hafeez
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Post by Hafeez on Jul 29, 2006 14:53:40 GMT
assalamualaikum on the profile update it asks for my pir-o-murshid.....wht is this?? wa'alaikumasalaam Rabi'ya Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhua persons Pir-o-Mushid is someone whom gives them spiritual/religious guidence. A person gains allegiance to them. Pir-o-Murshid is also non as Shaykh. If you have not made spiritual allegiance then you can leave that section blank
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Post by rabiya on Jul 29, 2006 14:58:46 GMT
assalamualikum why would you pledge allegiance to a sheikh? surely this means u follow their guidance and we should pledge allegience to Allah(swt) only.... isnt this shirk...? forgive me if ive sed anythign wrong.... wa'alikumasalaam Rabiya
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Abdul Rafiq
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Post by Abdul Rafiq on Jul 29, 2006 15:08:33 GMT
assalamualikum why would you pledge allegiance to a sheikh? surely this means u follow their guidance and we should pledge allegience to Allah(swt) only.... isnt this shirk...? forgive me if ive sed anythign wrong.... wa'alikumasalaam Rabiya A shaykh gives you the nisbat, the connection and bond that is needed between yourself and Allah. Most sunni muslims follow tasawwuf and therefore seek guidance of a shaykh to help them get closer to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. It is not obligatory but it is recommended, The tradition goes back to the sahaba who pledged allegiance to Nabi Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam.
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Hafeez
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Islam786:Hum sab Huzoor Paak (assalatu wassallam) ke Ghulam hai
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Post by Hafeez on Jul 29, 2006 15:11:28 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuBr Abdul Rafiq has beaten me to the point here Follow the link below and it will hopefully clear up any of your confusion. www.islam786.org/tasawwuf.htm#37367728don't hesitate to ask the Imam too
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Post by rabiya on Jul 29, 2006 15:15:00 GMT
subhanAllah excuse me if im just plain stupid but shudnt we just follow the teachings and traditions of Rasulallah Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam (saw)?I can understand for clarification upon some points, but surely pledging allegence is too far? AllahuAlam wa'alaikumasalam Rabiya
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Abdul Rafiq
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Post by Abdul Rafiq on Jul 29, 2006 15:18:56 GMT
subhanAllah excuse me if im just plain stupid but shudnt we just follow the teachings and traditions of Rasulallah (saw)? I can understand for clarification upon some points, but surely pledging allegence is too far? AllahuAlam wa'alaikumasalam Rabiya Literally speaking ..... Who says Muslims dont follow teachings and traditions of Rasulallah Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam
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Post by rabiya on Jul 29, 2006 15:22:05 GMT
Assalamualaikum
Im not saying we dont. but pledging allegiance actually means that we will follow the rulings and advice of that particular sheikh witout question. As a Muslim we shouldnt do that, surely?
jazakAllah kheir for your answers and honesty:)
wa'alaikumasalaam,
Rabiya
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Post by rabiya on Jul 29, 2006 15:22:30 GMT
oh, as an afterthought....
do you just mean which madhab do you follow?
wa'alaikumasalaam
Rabi'ya
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Abdul Rafiq
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Post by Abdul Rafiq on Jul 29, 2006 15:31:14 GMT
Assalamualaikum Im not saying we dont. but pledging allegiance actually means that we will follow the rulings and advice of that particular sheikh witout question. As a Muslim we shouldnt do that, surely? jazakAllah kheir for your answers and honesty:) wa'alaikumasalaam, Rabiya In that case what is your definition of a shaykh .... ? My defintion is someone, who gives his entire life, purely and simply for the cause of Allah, he lives, breathes, remembers Allah almighty and his beloved messenger 24/7. I am not talking about an ordinary scholar who may give the odd sermon, and lead jamaat in prayers, i am talking about someone who we have been instructed by Allah to get close to and listen to, and to guide us onto the sirat-as-mustaqeem, the rightous path. Someone who strictly follows shariah and is the best example of the beloved Prophet Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam. Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) says in the Qur'an Majid : "Listen carefully and no doubt there is no fear nor any grief upon the friends of Allah." (Surah Yunus : 62 ). This verse shows that there are some people who are nearer to Allah Ta'ala than other peoples. These are the friends of Allah Ta'ala and in Islamic terminology they are called AWLIYA-ALLAH and Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) reserves special treatment for them. Imam Bukhari (rahmatullah alaihi) narrates that the Most Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) said that Allah Ta'ala says, "My servant comes nearer to me by nafl worships upto this that I begin to love him and when I love him I become his ear by which he listens and I become his eyes by which he sees. (Saheeh al-Bukhari) Imam Muslim in his Saheeh and other scholars in their books narrate that the Most Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) says : "When Allah Almighty loves a person so, he calls Jabrail (alaihi as-salaam) and says that '' O Jabrail I love my so and so servant, and you also love him. Hence Jabrail (alaihis salaam) also loves him. Then Jabrail (alaihis salaam) announces in the skies that Allah Ta'ala loves his servant than all of the dwellers of skies love him. Then he is made beloved amongst the dwellers of the earth". Imam Abu Nuaim in Hilya and Imam Ibne Asakir narrate from Abdullah ibne Masood (Radi Allahu ta'ala anhu ) that the Most Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) says ; "Undoubtedly there are 300 Awliya (friend) of Allah within his creature and there hearts are the heart of Adam (alaihis salaam) and the hearts of 40 are like the heart of Musa (alaihis salaam) and the hearts of the seven are like the heart of Ibraheem (alaihis salaam) and the heart of the five are like the heart of Jabrail (alaihis salaam) and the hearts of the three are like the heart of Mikail (alaihis salaam) and the heart of one is like the heart of Israfeel (alaihis salaam). When that one (whose heart is like the heart of Israfeel) dies the one amonge of three made his representative and when some one dies among these three the one among five is made his representative and when some one dies from five the one among the seven is made his representative and when some one dies from seven the one among the forty is made his representative and when some one dies from the forty the one among the three hundred is made his representative and when some one dies from the three hundred the one among the general creature is made his representative. These are the 356 Awliya due to them the life, death, raining and the growing of the plant is happened ". According to the teachings of the Qur'an al-Kareem and Hadith, karamat's (miracle) are acts of the truth. Imam al-A'zam Abu Hanifa (Radi Allahu ta'ala anhu) writes in his Al-fiqh al-akbar that the karamat of Awliya is real but there are some materialists who proclaim to be Muslim but they deny spiritualism, they do not believe in the karamat of Awliya. Here we shall prove it in the light of Qur'an-e-Paak and AHadith. Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) says in the Qur'an al-Kareem, " Sulayman said, '' O chiefs, which of you who may bring her throne to me before they came to me submitting ''? One big evil jinn said, 'I will bring you that throne before you rise from your sitting and undoubtedly, I am powerful over that, trustworthy. One who had knowledge of the Book said, ' I shall bring it to you before twinkling of the eye.' Then when Sulayman saw the throne set before him said, 'this is of the grace of my lord that he may try me wether I am grateful or ungrateful' And whosoever is grateful for his own good, and whosoever is ungrateful, then my Lord is self sufficient and all virtuous". (Sura An-Namal, Verse 38 to 40). In this verse Allah Almighty has mentioned the karamat of the Companian of Hadrat Sulayman (alaihis salam). His name was Asif bin Barkhia. According to the commentators this throne was very huge and it was at the distance of 1500 miles away but the friend of Allah brought it before the twinkling of the eye. Allah Almighty mentions the story of Maryam (Radi Allahu ta'ala anha) and says, "And shake towards yourself holding the trunk of the palm tree fresh with rip dates will fall upon you". (Sura Al-Maryam, Verse 25). According to the commentators this was a dry tree, no fruit was on it but when the Waliyah of Allah, Maryam (Radi Allahu Ta'ala anha) shaked it the dates fell down. It was her Karamat that the dates fell from the dry tree.
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Post by rabiya on Jul 29, 2006 15:38:36 GMT
assalamualikum subhanAllah a wonderful reply brother. indeed i agree with you in relation to your definition of a sheikh mashAllah. I still cant quite grasp it tho. I can understand taking advice but to me pledging allegiance is taking things tooooo far Allahu Alam wa'aaikumasalaam Rabiya
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Abdul Rafiq
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Post by Abdul Rafiq on Jul 29, 2006 15:48:10 GMT
assalamualikum subhanAllah a wonderful reply brother. indeed i agree with you in relation to your definition of a sheikh mashAllah. I still cant quite grasp it tho. I can understand taking advice but to me pledging allegiance is taking things tooooo far Allahu Alam wa'aaikumasalaam Rabiya Wouldnt you rather be in the company of the learned, the knowledgable, the pious ... a shaykh. Shaykh Abd'al-Qadir al-Jilani (Radi Allahu ta'ala anhu) said: You must work hard to ensure that your hearts are not locked out of the door of His nearness. Be sensible! You are getting nowhere. You must seek the company of a Shaykh who is learned in the law [hukm] and knowledge [`ilm] of Allah (Almighty and Glorious is He), and who will show you the way toward Him. Without seeing the successful [muflih], one cannot succeed. If a person does not seek the company of scholars who put their knowledge into practice [`ulama `ummal], he is a chicken from an egg abandoned by the rooster and the mother hen. Seek the fellowship of those who enjoy fellowship with the Lord of Truth (Almighty and Glorious is He). What each of you should do, when the night has grown dark and people have gone to bed and their voices are silent, is get up, take an ablution [yatawadda'], perform two cycles of ritual prayer [yusalli rak`atain] and say: "O my Lord, guide me to one of Your righteous servants near to You, so that he may guide me toward You and make me familiar with Your path." The instrument [sabab] is necessary. Allah (Almighty and Glorious is He) was quite capable of guiding [His servants] to Him without the Prophets [anbiya']. Be sensible! You are getting nowhere. You must awaken from your heedless folly. As the Prophet has said: If someone relies entirely on his own subjective judgement, he will go astray.
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Post by rabiya on Jul 29, 2006 19:44:45 GMT
indeed, however, pledging allegiance to one sheikh is limiting to our knowledge also.
For example, I may rely on one sheikh solely for his information but when it comes to giving advice on a particular thing i may not agree or believe that the evidence shows otherwise. Therefore I would not want to say i implicilty follow that sheikh. rather take the knowledge of that sheikh and if it makes sense and is supported by authentic evidence then follow it.
Also, as long as the sheikh was to provide information relating to the evidence for a particular topic then i would definitely be inclined to follow inshAllah.
jazakAllah kheir for explaining it tho...altho i still dont agree with it.
wa'alaikumasalaam
Rabiya
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Post by rabiya on Jul 29, 2006 19:46:13 GMT
Also, I feel its important to gain knowledge from various sheikhs as some may interpret the information differently. there is not necessarily one view for everything, as we all know.
wa'alkumasalaam
Rabiya
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Muhammad Sadiq
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Verily, when He intends a thing, His command is 'Be' and it is! Al-Qur'an 36:82
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Post by Muhammad Sadiq on Jul 29, 2006 20:54:46 GMT
indeed, however, pledging allegiance to one sheikh is limiting to our knowledge also. For example, I may rely on one sheikh solely for his information but when it comes to giving advice on a particular thing i may not agree or believe that the evidence shows otherwise. Therefore I would not want to say i implicilty follow that sheikh. rather take the knowledge of that sheikh and if it makes sense and is supported by authentic evidence then follow it. Also, as long as the sheikh was to provide information relating to the evidence for a particular topic then i would definitely be inclined to follow inshAllah. jazakAllah kheir for explaining it tho...altho i still dont agree with it. wa'alaikumasalaam Rabiya There are many shaykhs of tasawwuf, the true ones speak the same language. Just like there are many websites on Islam, but you choose only ones that meet your criteria .. think outside the box for a change..
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Walid
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Al Madad
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Post by Walid on Jul 29, 2006 23:20:21 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
To Rabia, a little verse by the poet Hafiz.
Without the guidance of a Perfect Master, do not enter the path of love, I have failed hundreds of times while doing so by self-help.’
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Post by rabiya on Jul 30, 2006 17:49:55 GMT
Asalamualaikum brother Walid mashAllah a nice quote. I agree 100% jazakAllah kheir for everyones help on the matter tho wa'alaikumasalaam Rabiya
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Post by Hasan Askari on Jul 30, 2006 21:00:22 GMT
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Post by Shiraz Ashrafi on Jul 30, 2006 21:50:35 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
There is a Hadith that when Mahdi will appear, the people wil swear their alliegance to him, if this happens, Rabiya will you stand there and say 'I dont agree with this, i follow Allah only' I doubt it, you cannot follow Islam without following the best beloved Nabi Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam and what he has left us, remember he did say to us that 'I am leaving two things behind, that if you follow, you will never go astray, the Quran and the Ahle Bait'. Can you face Dajaal alone without the help of the Wali Allah who seek Help directly from him Subhanahu wa Ta'ala? Of course not, you are not naive, you know the different between right and wrong, we have given you proof, on the day of judgement, don't say that no one tried to warn you about the differences between the right path and the wrong path, the rest is up to you
Wasalaam
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Post by rabiya on Jul 31, 2006 14:32:19 GMT
Assalamualaikum jazakAllah kheir brother sunni - some nice ayat there brother Shiraz...what happens if the person who you think might be the one who gives good advice and has studied the Quraan and sunnah turns out to be the Dajjal and all along we have been following him? surely thats a risk we take? wa'alaikumasalaam Rabiya
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