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Post by sinful but yet hopeful on Feb 4, 2009 19:15:59 GMT
smoking is bad for you and islam does not let a person do bad. sorry if that sounds simple
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Post by rasheedahmed on Feb 4, 2009 19:24:54 GMT
Assalam O Alaikum
I agree with you that the smoking is bad for you healthwise but it is not Haram according to Sharia rules.
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Post by Naqshbandi on Feb 4, 2009 19:29:08 GMT
In accordance to some Ulema it is.
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Post by rasheedahmed on Feb 5, 2009 4:01:38 GMT
Assalam O Alaikum
Can you please explain on what basis it is Haram according to some ulema. It does not intoxicate if you smoke.
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Post by Naqshbandi on Feb 5, 2009 16:03:02 GMT
I cant remember it has been a while I will try to get further clarification but I think they said it does intoxicate and has some effect.. I cant remember. I know many people who tell me they get adrenaline rush when they smoke.. isnt that an effect?
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Post by musaffir on Mar 16, 2009 21:13:52 GMT
ASSALAMALIKUM WA'RAHMATULLAH.
AND LET IT BE KNOWN THE VERY FIRST THING ALLAH CREATED WAS NOOR-E-MUHMAMMADI صلى الله عليه وسلم
in regards to Smoking.
this is the problem with any forum that topics go out of hand and everyone is giving own verdicts and dont even consider for a moment that their verdict could be going against Allah Azzawajall and His Rasool صلى الله عليه وسلم.
as i am a student of religion i feel its important for me to say something on this subject.
anyone giving a harram fatwa will have to give give a direct fatwa from QURAN OR HADEETH or a illat.
anyone calling a product harram will have to worry about his emaan as harram comes from Allah and his Rasool صلى الله عليه وسلم. anyone calling a product even makruh then the public have the right asking the mufti for proof. it is even stated to this extent that anyone giving a harram fatwa from himself and which in fact is not, could fall out of the pale of islam as he had no authority to do so. the principal is the same as those who call Milad Shareef Harram. why do people run to quick conclusion, you know what you are doing, you are giving a stick to those people (who say milad is harram) to hit you with. stop this nonsense. if a product is harram then Quran is first source then hadith shareef. if no harram is found then we cant say its harram. but then we will look for illat from the Quran And Hadeeth shareef and even then not to be found then we have no say. it is muba.
the ulema say it is makruh due to smell. and the illat is the hadith when the prophet said صلى الله عليه وسلم dont eat raw garlic and go to the masajid as it disturbs others in salah. also ulema say it disturbs the angles when you are praying as they are noting down everything you say. so as soon you have smoked rinsing immediatley is mustahab.
also ulema say if you wanna call smoking harram due to exsessive smoking then also eating exsessive is harram. so the ulema duty is to strike a balance. and which they have.
below is a extract of Shaykh J.F.HADDAD statement
These were historically the very same issues surrounding coffee (which appeared around the same time) and the greatest jurists of the Four Sunni Schools would pronounce over both items that "there is no harm in either tobacco or coffee" provided one kept one's indulgence of them within proper bounds. Such fatwas are related from major figures — al-Shirwani and Zayn al-Din al-Jawi among the Shafiis; al-Nabulusi, Ibn Abidin and Abu al-Su'ud among the Hanafis; al-Ajhuri, al-Zurqani and al-Dusuqi among the Malikis; and Mar'i al-Karmi among the Hanbalis.
In the medically innocent context of old, the verdict of absolute prohibition was viewed as excessive. Tunisia's prestigious Zaytuna University in the June 1937 issue of its al-Majalla al-Zaytuniyya published the fatwa that "the herb used for smoking which is named tabgh or tambak (tobacco) is pure and does not affect the mind, therefore it is permissible to smoke it by mouth and whoever declares it categorically prohibited has erred. There is no objection to its sale, trade or cultivation". This judgment, although now obsolete and superseded by the fatwa of prohibition, nevertheless contains a useful legal implication which remains to be applied in our time: how can we now call smoking haram on one hand, but continue to treat its marketing and cultivation as halal on the other?.
please stop being scholars and contribute to forums in a manner which Islam has taught us. those who call it harram will have to provide refrences for all of us to view. this topic is small in fiqh but large to the public.
and Allah Azzawajal and his Rasoolصلى الله عليه وسلم know best
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Post by musaffir on Mar 16, 2009 21:25:01 GMT
also would like to say you have great topics on this forum keep the good work up.
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Post by musaffir on Mar 16, 2009 21:36:29 GMT
i would like to also say when a absolute ruling of harram comes from all four schools or within my school (Hanafi) with refrences then i will also declare it is harram. i use to say it was harram for many years but after Allah blessed me with knowledge and come to know calling something harram is not a easy task and not allowed with out any shari daleel. those ulema who say it is bad for the health i totally respect their verdict. but tell me one thing, have you ever noticed when these reserchers or scientist speak about smoking they will use the words such as " it may harm you" " it may lead to cancer ". even the scientist dont have full evidence, then is it not just right that at present times the ulema have a balance on the subject by calling it makruh??
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Post by Naqshbandi on Mar 16, 2009 23:48:48 GMT
Well brother, some ulema have given haram fatwa, and yes do accept that eating excessivly is haram also. The hanafi Imam who I follow declares it haram hence I feel that is the case too. Nobody is passing fatwa, other then yourself. We are just discussing, hence it is in the Discussion section. If you want a proper answer without opinion or without being subject to discussion then you can post in the Imam section.
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Post by musaffir on Mar 17, 2009 2:26:57 GMT
i have given no fatwa. that is the problem with sunni's today.
and i qoute " If you want a proper answer without opinion or without being subject to discussion then you can post in the Imam section. "
the answer i give to this is the Quran ul Kareem
002.213
كَانَ النَّاسُ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً فَبَعَثَ اللَّهُ النَّبِيِّينَ مُبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنْذِرِينَ وَأَنْزَلَ مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ فِيمَا اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ فِيهِ إِلا الَّذِينَ أُوتُوهُ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ فَهَدَى اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لِمَا اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ مِنَ الْحَقِّ بِإِذْنِهِ وَاللَّهُ يَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ 002.213
Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.
Al-Qur'an, 002.213 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
024.015
إِذْ تَلَقَّوْنَهُ بِأَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَتَقُولُونَ بِأَفْوَاهِكُمْ مَا لَيْسَ لَكُمْ بِهِ عِلْمٌ وَتَحْسَبُونَهُ هَيِّنًا وَهُوَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمٌ 024.015
Behold, ye received it on your tongues, and said out of your mouths things of which ye had no knowledge; and ye thought it to be a light matter, while it was most serious in the sight of Allah.
Al-Qur'an, 024.015 (An-Noor [The Light])
If any person calls something Harram it dont make something harram. harram is that what Allah and his Rasool صلى الله عليه وسلم have declared harram. in regards to discussion section, thats my point in this section is how people become deviated. if smoking was harram then Ala Hazrat Azeem ul Barkat would of never had smoked tobbacco (huka). as Ala Hazrat never allowed Harram to come near him. ( i am not using Ala Hazrat as daleel here to prove a point as Authority is with Allah and his Rasool صلى الله عليه وسلم )
why is it then as soon as the Deoband school of thought or the salafi school of thought give the same principal in regards to Milad Shareef you are quick to answer back at there logic, when you are using the same principal.
The point i am making is the balanced side of it. otherwise this is the reason why sunni's will never unite. we all look for our hero's. we never wanna come on a common ground. if your imam ( in no way am i disrespecting him) has given harram verdict then what is the daleel, as we want to know. can you even imagine this situation in the blessed Sahaba time? never!!!!! the Sahaba would of made sure before any fatwa was given to the public they all agreed. we sunni's after 1400 years have fell from a great Maqam and these issues have gone to the public were every man thinks he is a alim. let the Ulema speak, and when they have spoken it is their duty to show evidence, and anyone speaking on their behalf will have to show their evidence. long have gone the days when an Alim used to have his fatwa affirmed by other Alims before he would give to the public.
The Noble Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam) Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: “Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs
Imam Dhahabi wrote in Siyar a’lam an-Nubala, such scholars are like the khalifah in that everyone (in this case, the other scholars) point to him and affirm he is a scholar.
“You have to follow the Congregation for verily Allah will not make the largest group of Muhammad’s Community agree on error.” Ibn Abi Shayba relates it with a sound chain.
“Allah’s hand is over the group, follow the largest mass, for verily whoever dissents from them departs to hell.” Narrated by al-Hakim and al-Tabari from Ibn `Abbas, and al-Lalika’i in al-Sunna and al-Hakim also narrated it from Ibn `Umar.
“Allah’s hand is over the group, follow the largest mass, for verily whoever dissents from them departs to hell.” Narrated by al-Hakim and al-Tabari from Ibn `Abbas, and al-Lalika’i in al-Sunna and al-Hakim also narrated it from Ibn `Umar.
“Verily Allah will not make Muhammad’s Community agree on error.” al-Hakim narrated it in the Mustadrak (1:116, 177) with a sound (sahih) chain.
“Verily Allah will not make my Community agree on error” Tirmidhi with a fair (hasan) chain.
“Verily Allah will not make my Community — or Muhammad’s Community — agree on error, and Allah’s hand is with the largest Congregation.” Tirmidhi said: “And the meaning of “jama`a” according to the people of knowledge is: the people of jurisprudence, learning, and hadith. Tirmidhi (gharib) #2256, Cairo ed. `Aridat al-ahwadhi (11:9)
“Whoever among you wants to be in the middle of Paradise, let him cling to the Congregation.”Tirmidhi related it and said it is sound (sahih).
“My Community shall never agree upon misguidance, therefore, if you see divergences, you must follow the greater mass or larger group.”Ibn Majah (2:1303 #3950) Ahmad narrates it mawquf through three sound chains to Abu Umama al-Bahili and Ibn Abi Awfa. Bayhaqi in al-Madkhal narrates something similar from Ibn `Abbas.
“My Community shall not agree upon misguidance. Therefore, you must stay with the Congregation, and Allah’s hand is over the Congregation.”Tabarani narrated it with two chains from Ibn `Umar, one of which is sound (sahih). See Haythami, Majma` al-zawa’id, chapter on the obligation to stay with the Congregation.
“Verily Allah has protected my Community from agreeing upon error.” Ibn Abi `Asim narrated it in the Sunna and Albani declared it hasan in his Silsila sahiha (3:319).
The Noble Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam) Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: “There was disagreement amongst Jews and they split into 72 groups. In exactly the same way, there will be disagreement and divisions in my Ummah. It will split into 73 groups. Apart from one of those groups, all the remaining 72 will be thrown into Hell.” When asked which group will be on the right path, the Noble Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam) Muhammad (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) replied: “The group on the right path, which will enter Paradise, will be the group which follows my Sunnah and that of my Sahaba and this will be the largest group of Muslims.” (Tirmidi, Imam Ahmad, Abu Daud, Mishkat)
The Noble Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam) Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم said: “Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah’s mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell.” (Tirmidi)
“Whoever leaves the Community or separates himself from it by the length of a span, dies the death of the Jahiliyya (period of ignorance prior to Islam)” Muslim (Imara #55) through Ibn `Abbas. Muslim relates it with slight variations through three more chains. Ibn Abi Shayba also relates it in his Musannaf.
Shaytan is a wolf like the wolf that preys on sheep, taking the isolated and the stray among them; therefore, avoid factionalism and keep to the Congregation and the collective and the masjid.”Ahmad relates it through Mu`adh and through Abu Dharr, the two chains being respectively fair [hasan] and sound [sahih] according to Haythami in Majma` al-zawa’id.
People used to ask the Prophet about the good and I used to ask him about the evil… I said: “O Messenger of Allah, describe them to us [the callers at the door of the fire]. He said: They are of our complexion and they speak our very language.” I said: “What do you order me to do if that day reaches me?” He said: “You must keep to the Congregation of Muslims and to their leader.” Bukhari and Muslim on the authority of Hudhayfa ibn al-Yaman.
“Allah’s hand is over the group.” Tirmidhi (hasan).
al-Munawi said: “Allah’s hand is over the group means His protection and preservation for them, signifying that the collectivity of the people of Islam are in Allah’s fold, so be also in Allah’s shelter, in the midst of them, and do not separate yourselves from them. Whoever diverges from the overwhelming majority concerning what is lawful and unlawful and on which the Community does not differ has slipped off the path of guidance and this will lead him to hell.”
“Allah’s hand is over the group, and whoever dissents from them departs to hell.” Tirmidhi (gharib) from Ibn `Umar, al-Hakim both from Ibn `Umar and Ibn `Abbas, and Ibn Jarir from Ibn `Umar.
“That which the Muslims consider good, Allah considers good.” Ahmad in the Musnad (#3599) relates it from the words of Ibn Mas`ud (mawquf) with a sound chain.
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Post by Saalik on Mar 17, 2009 10:39:13 GMT
this is the problem with any forum that topics go out of hand and everyone is giving own verdicts as i am a student of religion i feel its important for me to say something on this subject. why do people run to quick conclusion you know what you are doing, you are giving a stick to those people (who say milad is harram) to hit you with. please stop being scholars and contribute to forums in a manner which Islam has taught us. Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuWe would appreciate if you could please answer the following questions:- 1. How has the topic gone out of hand and what do you mean by everyone is giving own verdicts? 2. Being still a student, based on what you came to your conclusion? 3. This is a discussion forum, so in the above discussion where has any people here run to such a quick conclusion that in your personal view they are giving a stick to those people (who say Milad Sahreef is haram) to hit them with. 4. Where, who and how many people have acted as scholars? 5. Read your second reply thoroughly and try to see whether the discussion is still in hand or not. Can you see the problem with some sunnis today?
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Post by Naqshbandi on Mar 17, 2009 18:21:35 GMT
Brother I only follow the stance of my shaykh, hence I would advise all other people to follow theirs, Faazil-e-barelli rehamtullahi alay gave ruling saying it wasnt haram and was makruh or mubah I respect their ruling very much too and anybody who follows that isnt wrong also, however there is still a minority of scholars who have said it is haram and I happen to be a follower of them on this certain issue, hence I keep that stance.
So I just gave my bit to this post, so that other people can see my point, and yes I am sorry I wasnt able to provide any backing, however I aint a Mufti or Alim so I cannot and neither are you so stop trying to do the work of the alim-e-deens, if the topic has really concerned, then do ask the Imam who will most likely give a reply saying makruh.
Anyways Asalamalaykum wa rehmatullahi wa barakatohu.
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Post by musaffir on Mar 17, 2009 20:31:10 GMT
Assalamualaykum
And let it be known the very first thing Allah created was Noor-e-Muhammadiصلى الله عليه وسلم
my reply was sufficent on the Quran Mubarak Ayats i gave and Ahdeeth.
1. How has the topic gone out of hand and what do you mean by everyone is giving own verdicts?
how does the layman reading this disscussion now what is the truth when the views here is mixed with no back up reference.
2. Being still a student, based on what you came to your conclusion?
Alhumdulilah.
3. This is a discussion forum, so in the above discussion where has any people here run to such a quick conclusion that in your personal view they are giving a stick to those people (who say Milad Sahreef is haram) to hit them with.
read the topic yourself with a open mind.
024.015
إِذْ تَلَقَّوْنَهُ بِأَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَتَقُولُونَ بِأَفْوَاهِكُمْ مَا لَيْسَ لَكُمْ بِهِ عِلْمٌ وَتَحْسَبُونَهُ هَيِّنًا وَهُوَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمٌ 024.015
Behold, ye received it on your tongues, and said out of your mouths things of which ye had no knowledge; and ye thought it to be a light matter, while it was most serious in the sight of Allah.
Al-Qur'an, 024.015 (An-Noor [The Light])
002.042
وَلا تَلْبِسُوا الْحَقَّ بِالْبَاطِلِ وَتَكْتُمُوا الْحَقَّ وَأَنْتُمْ تَعْلَمُونَ
02.042
And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
Al-Qur'an, 002.042 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
002.176
ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّ اللَّهَ نَزَّلَ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِي الْكِتَابِ لَفِي شِقَاقٍ بَعِيدٍ 002.176
(Their doom is) because Allah sent down the Book in truth but those who seek causes of dispute in the Book are in a schism Far (from the purpose).
Al-Qur'an, 002.176 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
002.213
كَانَ النَّاسُ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً فَبَعَثَ اللَّهُ النَّبِيِّينَ مُبَشِّرِينَ وَمُنْذِرِينَ وَأَنْزَلَ مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ بِالْحَقِّ لِيَحْكُمَ بَيْنَ النَّاسِ فِيمَا اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ وَمَا اخْتَلَفَ فِيهِ إِلا الَّذِينَ أُوتُوهُ مِنْ بَعْدِ مَا جَاءَتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ بَغْيًا بَيْنَهُمْ فَهَدَى اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لِمَا اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ مِنَ الْحَقِّ بِإِذْنِهِ وَاللَّهُ يَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ إِلَى صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ 002.213
Mankind was one single nation, and Allah sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings; and with them He sent the Book in truth, to judge between people in matters wherein they differed; but the People of the Book, after the clear Signs came to them, did not differ among themselves, except through selfish contumacy. Allah by His Grace Guided the believers to the Truth, concerning that wherein they differed. For Allah guided whom He will to a path that is straight.
Al-Qur'an, 002.213 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])
4. Where, who and how many people have acted as scholars?
come out of your nut shell and see what fitna the ummah is in, and now you wanna open disscussion for layman to be confused. open a disscussion but with daleel. as a moderator you should now better.
051.023 فَوَرَبِّ السَّمَاءِ وَالأرْضِ إِنَّهُ لَحَقٌّ مِثْلَ مَا أَنَّكُمْ تَنْطِقُونَ 051.023
Then, by the Lord of heaven and earth, this is the very Truth, as much as the fact that ye can speak intelligently to each other.
Al-Qur'an, 051.023 (Adh-Dhariyat [The Winnowing winds])
and in no way this is attack on any brother. please take as you please. and you are more then welcome to delete the posts.
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Post by Naqshbandi on Mar 17, 2009 23:32:37 GMT
Jazakallah for the post, there is no room for students to be trying to put discussions to an end. Students should stick to studying.
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Post by musaffir on Mar 17, 2009 23:54:29 GMT
and an arrogant naqshabndi shud stick to his khankah and learn manners.
after giving Quran ayats and Ahdeeth Shareef you still come out with WORDS such as
lol -- MAYBE IN YOUR WORLD
jazakallah -- UNDERSTAND WHEN TO USE THIS HOLY WORD.
student should stick to studying.---
ALL ARE STUDENTS AND MY NABI IS MUALLIM E UMMAT.
i am embarressed, how can such a man that belongs to the greatest silsila the Siddiqi Sillsila talk like that. HAVE SHAME. HAVING SO MANY POSTS OR BEING A FULL MEMBER MIGHT GIVE YOU THAT BEHAVIOUR IN THIS FORUM BUT NOT IN TASSSAWUFF WORLD.
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Post by Naqshbandi on Mar 18, 2009 0:03:15 GMT
and an arrogant naqshabndi shud stick to his khankah and learn manners. 'naq shabn[/b]di' LOL. Jazakallahu khayrun. ;D Maybe ask your teacher to teach you some spellings too.
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Post by Ghulam Mustufa on Mar 18, 2009 0:17:59 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
Brothers, please remember to respect each other whether you agree with the other person or not.
If you cannot control yourself then do not reply. The one who is humble and respectful in manner is the one who is correct and favoured by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.
Wa'assalam
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