Changing Peer/murshid?

[Sister Nomee]

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

ASALATU WASALAMU ALAYKA YA RASULLALLAH Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam

We have discussed on several occasions on having bait with a peer/murshid. But this thread is to find out thoughts about changing peer/ murshid and on what grounds?

One can also be taalib of another peer/murshid like myself have great respect for Shaykh Ul Islam Madni Mian sahib and Ilyas Attar Qadri Sahib yet am a Naushahi Qadri mureed.

I have recently come across someone who has changed their peer murshid (a very respectable murshid) for someone who may be able to resolve their problems , surely we have this spiritual bond/connection with our murshid and this relationship should not be taken lightly?

What are your thoughts? have any of you come across this before?

Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

[fatma]

from what i know you can't change your peer at all no matter what the circumstances. unless ofcourse your peer is no longer a muslim (highly unlikely).

i personally wouldnt ever even think of changing my peer but i do have respect for many others.

[musaafir]

Pir Mehr Ali Shah Radi Allahu anhu said " a rolling stone gains no moss" i.e. he who jumps pir to pir will gain nothing.

It doesnt matter if another pir comes walking in the air or on water,one should stick to his or her own murshid(as long as his murshid does not commit open kabira sins).

Talib e bait with another pir should only be taken with the permission of ones real spiritual murshid,and with a pir who is an alim and can actually further ones studies/knowledge, as far i am concerned.

[Sohail]

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Changing peers is like changing your heart i have been told. You are like married to your sheikh and should not divorce him without his knowledge.

[guz_Attaria]

i dont think you can just change your murshid just because you feel like it or you think your gaining nothing. you should neva change ur murshid unless like brother musafir said he commits major sins openly.
i would neva eva eva in a million year even think about changing my peer, because like you said sis nomee there is a spiritial bond and love for ones pir.

[Fana fi Shaykh]

wsohail said:

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Changing peers is like changing your heart i have been told. You are like married to your sheikh and should not divorce him without his knowledge.

Yes you are right, Shaykhul Arab Ibne Arabi Radi Allahu anhu writes the relation between Shaykh and mureed is like Husband and wife.

Like one Wife cannot have two husband at a same time , same way mureed cannot have two Pir at same time.

Yaa Pir Al-madad

[Shiraz Ashrafi]

Apr 11, 2008 11:07:43 GMT Fana fi Shaykh said:

wsohail said:

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Changing peers is like changing your heart i have been told. You are like married to your sheikh and should not divorce him without his knowledge.

Yes you are right, Shaykhul Arab Ibne Arabi Radi Allahu anhu writes the relation between Shaykh and mureed is like Husband and wife.

Like one Wife cannot have two husband at a same time , same way mureed cannot have two Pir at same time.

Yaa Pir Al-madad

Lately, even I have heard that someone has taken bait with so and so Peer and then changed to such and such or someone has taken Bait with one Peer and wishes to take another Peer as well as keeping the other, the argument I have heard is that Moulana Rumi Rahmatullahi ’alayh (supposedly) had more then one Peer, though as far as I knew Hazrat Tamz Shabrez Rahmatullahi ’alayh was his Master and Peer

[Saalik]

Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahim

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

ASALATU WASALAMU ALAYKA YA RASULLALLAH Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam

This is a worthy topic as it is a real fact that people who don't understand the concept of Peer/Mureed relationship betray their Peer and Oath of Allegiance to Him. It is also a known fact that these people, being unaware and uninformed of how is the Peer/Mureed relationship, gets influenced by people of same category and fall in dilemna. Failing to reflect, they just follow the course of the whispering.

We have got some valuable replies and I will just add that who will that person who has betrayed His First Peer call when he has Two Peers and who will respond to his call? Certainly not the first Peer whom he has betrayed and furthermore the second Peer will also not respond to someone who has been an unfaithful mureed.

That makes this question arise: at the time of giving Bai'at, does the second Peer not know that the person has broken his Oath of Allegiance with his First Peer?

I will leave this for further views from our members and continue later. What if we are asked about it by......... and alikes or by people who really don't know about it but have the correct Aqeedah on Peer .[/b]

[Saalik]

Apr 11, 2008 19:34:26 GMT Shiraz Ashrafi said:

Apr 11, 2008 11:07:43 GMT Fana fi Shaykh said:

Yes you are right, Shaykhul Arab Ibne Arabi Radi Allahu anhu writes the relation between Shaykh and mureed is like Husband and wife.

Like one Wife cannot have two husband at a same time , same way mureed cannot have two Pir at same time.

Yaa Pir Al-madad

Lately, even I have heard that someone has taken bait with so and so Peer and then changed to such and such or someone has taken Bait with one Peer and wishes to take another Peer as well as keeping the other, the argument I have heard is that Moulana Rumi Rahmatullahi ’alayh (supposedly) had more then one Peer, though as far as I knew Hazrat Tamz Shabrez Rahmatullahi ’alayh was his Master and Peer

Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Brother it's a bit confusing what you have heard but one thing is sure; one can be mureed to a Peer and receives khilaafat (if he is worthy) from several Peers. This is also from the Duah of his Peer. He can also take bai'at from other Peers as well but it's not like his first bai'at, it's called Talab e Faiz and as the name indicates it's for obtaining their faiz and the Kaamil Peer who gives his faiz in this way knows what he is doing and it is with that intention and knowledge.

Beloved Brother Syed Rehan knows the subject much better and He will delights us with his usual gems, Inshah Allah.

[PBUH]

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

Im not so sure about a murid doing talib e bait, what if this murid is weak and spends all his time in the service of his second peer and ends up neglecting the one with the proper oath. I think bait should only remain with one peer only personally, that way theres no compromise.

[Sister Nomee]

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

ASALATU WASALAMU ALAYKA YA RASULLALLAH Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam

MashAllah great replies, jazakAllah khayrun all for your response.

I hope we give the utmost respect to our murshids whom we have taken bait with and may all our Murshids be blessed with long prosperous lives ameen summa ameen

Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

[Fana fi Shaykh]

Apr 11, 2008 19:34:26 GMT Shiraz Ashrafi said:

Apr 11, 2008 11:07:43 GMT Fana fi Shaykh said:

Yes you are right, Shaykhul Arab Ibne Arabi Radi Allahu anhu writes the relation between Shaykh and mureed is like Husband and wife.

Like one Wife cannot have two husband at a same time , same way mureed cannot have two Pir at same time.

Yaa Pir Al-madad

Lately, even I have heard that someone has taken bait with so and so Peer and then changed to such and such or someone has taken Bait with one Peer and wishes to take another Peer as well as keeping the other, the argument I have heard is that Moulana Rumi Rahmatullahi ’alayh (supposedly) had more then one Peer, though as far as I knew Hazrat Tamz Shabrez Rahmatullahi ’alayh was his Master and Peer

Beloved brother let me start with the word's of my Shaykh:

Allah ek , Allah ke Habeeb Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam ek aur Pir ek.

Beloved brother There can only be one Pir and as brother Saalik said one can become Taalib from numerous Shaykh.

There is no shifting of Pir, Only fool's keep shifting their Pir.

Even our Grandmaster Sayyedina Gaus-e-Azam Radi Allahu anhu become taalib from many Shaykh's.

On the day of Qiyamat you will stand under the flag of your Shaykh and not with the one with whom you have become Taalib.

Your Shaykh is your Ruhani Father your guide & your rehbar.

Read what Khwaja Sahib Radi Allahu anhu is saying : ashraf786.proboards15.com/v45index.cgi?board=murid&action=display&thread=11825

Hazrath Shaykh Sayyid Abdul Qadir Jilani Radi Allahu anhu states that a murshid is to be accepted as a link and a mediator between himself and his Lord,and also as a method and means to attain Him.He further says that the spiritual guides are the road to Allah,the signposts to it,and the gate by which it is entered.For every seeker of Allah a spiritual guide is therefore indispensable(necessary).


Look what Khwaja Nizamuddin Awliya Radi Allahu anhu is saying : ashraf786.proboards15.com/v45index.cgi?board=murid&action=display&thread=11818

Look what Qalander's are Saying : ashraf786.proboards15.com/v45index.cgi?board=murid&action=display&thread=11809

some duties of Mureed : ashraf786.proboards15.com/v45index.cgi?board=murid&action=display&thread=11826

Insha-Allah will post more later.

JazakAllahu khayrun

Yaa Pir Al-Madad[/color]

[shamshuddin]

Apr 12, 2008 16:11:54 GMT Fana fi Shaykh said:

Apr 11, 2008 19:34:26 GMT Shiraz Ashrafi said:

Lately, even I have heard that someone has taken bait with so and so Peer and then changed to such and such or someone has taken Bait with one Peer and wishes to take another Peer as well as keeping the other, the argument I have heard is that Moulana Rumi Rahmatullahi ’alayh (supposedly) had more then one Peer, though as far as I knew Hazrat Tamz Shabrez Rahmatullahi ’alayh was his Master and Peer

Beloved brother let me start with the word's of my Shaykh:

Allah ek , Allah ke Habeeb Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam ek aur Pir ek.

Beloved brother There can only be one Pir and as brother Saalik said one can become Taalib from numerous Shaykh.

There is no shifting of Pir, Only fool's keep shifting their Pir.

Even our Grandmaster Sayyedina Gaus-e-Azam Radi Allahu anhu become taalib from many Shaykh's.

On the day of Qiyamat you will stand under the flag of your Shaykh and not with the one with whom you have become Taalib.

Your Shaykh is your Ruhani Father your guide & your rehbar.

Read what Khwaja Sahib Radi Allahu anhu is saying : ashraf786.proboards15.com/v45index.cgi?board=murid&action=display&thread=11825

Hazrath Shaykh Sayyid Abdul Qadir Jilani Radi Allahu anhu states that a murshid is to be accepted as a link and a mediator between himself and his Lord,and also as a method and means to attain Him.He further says that the spiritual guides are the road to Allah,the signposts to it,and the gate by which it is entered.For every seeker of Allah a spiritual guide is therefore indispensable(necessary).


Look what Khwaja Nizamuddin Awliya Radi Allahu anhu is saying : ashraf786.proboards15.com/v45index.cgi?board=murid&action=display&thread=11818

Look what Qalander's are Saying : ashraf786.proboards15.com/v45index.cgi?board=murid&action=display&thread=11809

some duties of Mureed : ashraf786.proboards15.com/v45index.cgi?board=murid&action=display&thread=11826

Insha-Allah will post more later.

JazakAllahu khayrun

Yaa Pir Al-Madad

[/color][/quote]


A good post, and historically the relationship has only ever been with one shaykh and one mureed, i cant recall any recognised shaykh who also did talib-e-bait.

[Maneza]

Assalaam Alaikum,

A very vital thread, and some really good replies.

I think one should really think hard and research before one does Bait with Murshid paak. As once the bait is done should never be undone. InshAllah.

In my life i have now very recently come across a second person who have left a particular Murshid paak. Same Murshid but different people.
The question that arises to me is that how can the second murshid paak allow the person to be their mureed if they have left their previous Murshid.

I am not currently a mureed, but InshAllah next time i go to Pakistan, I want to be bait with the same Murshid paak of my parents.

Allah Hafiz.

[Saalik]

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

ASALATU WASALAMU ALAYKA YA RASULLALLAH Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam


Talab e Faiz in only to get the faiz of the Pir o Murshid from whom it is taken. It is not upon a Mureed's decision but that of the Pir o Murshid in question. The procedure is not the same as the original Bai'at but slightly differs. One repeats the words exactly after the Pir o Murshid without holding His Blessed Daaman. After becoming His Taalib, one will continue to get His Faiz.

More easily in a general understandable language, it is like receiving His Blessings even though one is already under the Oath of Allegiance with his Pir o Murshid and it does not interfere in any opposite way. When one is already Mureed of his Beloved Shaikh it is not impermissible to get Blessed by another Shaikh. This makes clear that to receive the Blessings of another Pir o Murshid via Talab e faiz does not in any sense contravene one's Oath of Allegiance and it does not means having changed one's Murshid for Another.

[Sister Nomee]

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

ASALATU WASALAMU ALAYKA YA RASULLALLAH Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam

JazakAllah brother for that useful information

Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

[Fana fi Shaykh]

Apr 12, 2008 21:49:27 GMT shamshuddin said:

A good post, and historically the relationship has only ever been with one shaykh and one mureed, i cant recall any recognised shaykh who also did talib-e-bait.

My beloved brother You are Ashrafi Slave and the Imam of Ashrafi Tariqa Sayyedina Makhdoom Jahangir Ashraf Simnani Mehboob-e-Yazdani Radi Allahu anhu get Khilafat from Hadrat Sayyedina Makhdum Jalaluddin Bukhari Radi Allahu anhu in Qadiri Tariqat and he also get Khilafat from Hadrat Sayyedina Khawaja Ala al-Haq Pandavi Radi Allahu anhu in Chistiya Tariqat.

Hadrat Sayyedina Khwaja Ala Al-Haq Radi Allahu anhu is Pir Mursheed of Sayyedina Khwaja Makhdoom Ashraf simnani Radi Allahu anhu

Beloved brother Before getting Khilafat one has to become Taalib from the Shaykh i.e. Talab-e-Faiz.

JazakAllahu Khayrun

Aaftabe Qadiriya o Chistiya o Ashrafiya Taabindabad

[Ashiq e Rasool]

Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

ASALATU WASALAMU ALAYKA YA RASULLALLAH Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam

A good thread and great replies given by all.

The conviction is in True faith and respect of your Pir o Murshid.

Those who change and fliter from here and there, (and I know of many who have left and then slandered their pir after they have deflected) by the influence of others.

This is lack of devotion and a weak faith in the first place. I would never consider or even contemplate ever leaving my Beloved blessed Pir o Murshid, Hadrat Shaykh Ul Islam no matter how fresh and new approach another brings with him .
No matter how many miracles he has performed or how many millions have took his bait, my faith In My Pir O Murshid , That is in the essence of my believe, It is that strong that even if I was the last mureed on earth, all others deflected I still would not turn.

ASALATU WASALAMU ALAYKA YA RASULLALLAH Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam

[ahligamma]

786

Changing of masters

Sohbet of Shaykh Nazim Al Haqqani


Insha’allah, we are about to speak on a very important subject. We are going to talk on Tariqa
Orders (Sufi Orders). So many people come to Damascus from different countries in order to
visit us. Some of them already belong to a sheikh and a Tariqat order. They are now asking
for new Bayyat from us. One of them, Sheikh Salahuddin, is finding conflict in himself about
this. This is why we have to make clear to everyone all over the world so they may know as to
what is Tariqat, who is a sheikh, how many Sheikhs may one follow, and what the relation of
Sheikhs to each other is.



Allah Almighty will ask from everyone on the Last Day, “What did you bring today, oh My
servant? Did you bring Qalb-us-Saleem, a pure heart, a golden, precious heart?” Allah Almighty
is asking from everyone to have a clean heart. You may make it pure only through tariqat
orders. Those without tariqat are only occupying themselves with the outer life and leaving out
the heart.



There are 41 tariqats (Sufi Orders). Forty (40) of them springing from the heart of Imam Ali,
and one (1), the Naqshabandi order, coming from the heart of Abu Bakr as-Siddiq, (may Allah
be pleased with them). The Prophet had 124,000 companions. Who was the Grand
companion? It was Abu Bakr. The Prophet said, “The whole of what Allah entrusted to me on
the Night Journey I put into the heart of Abu Bakr.” Sayyidina Ali was connected to Abu Bakr in
such a way as to make Ali the entrance of the City of Knowledge. This is well known among
the real tariqat Sheikhs. They respect the Naqshbandi Order as the first one. I am talking about
the real Sheikhs, not of those giving titles to themselves.



All of the Great Sheikhs, Jilani, Rumi, Darqawi, Rifai, knew the real station of the Naqshabandi
order. If a person is following one of these other tariqats, they may take Tariqat Naqshabandiya
also and remain free to follow those exercises or follow the Naqshabandiya exercises. If also
they only follow the Naqshabandi exercises it is enough. It doesn’t matter whether you are
coming from another Tariqat into the Naqsahbandi Order. Some fear that their first Sheikh will
hear they have taken a second tariqat and be angry with them. If he is a real Sheikh, how can
he be angry? A real Sheikh must know if his mureed was given to him on the Day of Promises
or not. A shepherd knows his sheep, even one from a thousand and even if they are all white.
He has light in his eyes and recognizes them without mistake.



In Tariqat there is no sorrow or anger if any mureed goes to another Sheikh. We are thankful
to the first Sheikh for training him until he reaches his real Sheikh. Abu Yazid al Bistami said,
“During my search, I met 99 sheikhs before reaching my Grandsheikh.” You may meet so
many Sheikhs and take exercises, but you may not find satisfaction until you find your
Grandsheikh and then it is like a river meeting the Ocean. So many Sheikhs are only trainers,
but finally a Grandsheikh must call you. Not by letters but from heart to heart. There are
ways. If a Naqshabandi Sheikh is giving tariqat, he must tell the mureed who the Grandsheikh
for the Naqshbandi Order is in this time. He must point out to him.



So many people from the West are coming now invited by the way of hearts, to our
Grandsheikh. The chain of Sheikhs ends in one. Our Grandsheikh is the last link in the Golden
Chain and he is holding that position. I am only his servant. As for the other Naqshabandi
Sheikhs, we are waiting for them to renew their Bayyat with us or else they are only putting on
titles for themselves.



Seyyadina Muhammad Mahdi alaihi salam and his seven (7) Grand Wazirs, his ninety nine (99)
Caliphas and the three hundred and thirteen (313) Grand Murshids are all from the Naqshabandi
Tariqat. In this time, there is no power for other tariqats to carry people all the way to the
ultimate goal. All are invited to renew Bayyat to our Grandsheikh and then they may observe
their improvement. In our time, there may be one thousand (1000) Naqsahbandi Sheikhs, but
there is only one Grandsheikh bringing them all together and he is the Imam. If you bring the
124,000 Sahaba together, who is the Imam? It is Abu Bakr as Siddique (ral).



Each Sheikh must appoint one Deputy. Mevlana Khalid Baghdadi appointed Sheikh Ismail, but
so many Naqshbandi Orders lost him in their Silsila (Chain of Spiritual Transmission) and lost
also the secret of our Grandsheikh. Now there are so many Naqshabandi Sheikhs in Damacus,
Aleppo and Homs who can’t find a successor. Except for our Grandsheikh, no one has pointed
to a Deputy. This is because we have Sheikh Ismail in our Silsila.



If my Grandsheikh’s power would fully appear, no one could be sitting here; but that
tremendous guiding and directing power (Irshad) is being stored up for the time of Sayyidina Al-
Mahdi. At that time, al other Tariqats will be engulfed by the huge irshad – power carried
through the Naqshbandiyya Tariqat – they will be engulfed like inland seas being absorbed into a
great ocean. Other Tariqats are already all slowly grinding to a halt, not moving forward. Since
no Grandsheikhs are appearing among them, all that is left of them is their saying, “Follow this
Tariqat or that one.” Since no Grandsheikhs are now appearing among them, they are only
imitating what they found their predecessors practicing, without being able to improve – like
soldiers marching in place.



(A person in attendance commented) : “Some of the Sheikhs of the other Tariqats are angry at
you for your making such statements; they think that you are making Naqshbandi politics,
trying to take away their disciples.”



(Sheikh Nazim replied) : Don’t speak foolish words. They may scream, “Politics!” and they
may be angry, but they must know that what we are saying is reality, not politics; for we hate
politics. If they have real spiritual knowledge (Maanawi Ulum), then they may see the reality of
what we are saying; if not, they may be angry – but their anger is useless. Now, the Last
Prophet, Muhammad (sal), is present in the spiritual realm and for the Awliya there is an
assembly with the Prophet’s Presence every night. If they are there, they may realize and
know; if not, then they are only with us – not seeing what will happen and not seeing the reality
of what happens now. If the latter is the case, then they are only looking at books and talking,
and you can’t know these things like that – no, that knowledge is distinct, it comes by way of
the hearts.



When you are mentioning the names of persons, we may know whether they are inside or
outside. In the time of Abdul-Qadir Al-Jilani, a great Grandsheikh, there was another sheikh
who heard about him and said to his pupils : “I have heard so much about this Sheikh Abdul-
Qadir, but I have been waiting at the entrance of Allah Almighty’s Power Castle for thirty years,
and up until now I haven’t seen him entering or leaving, so how is it that they are saying he is
such a huge Sheikh?” When Abdul-Qadir heard this, he laughed and said: “How can a
doorkeeper know who sits in the presence of the King, in the proximity of the Majestic Lord?”



And so, you may find so many Tariqat Sheikhs, but their levels are different. So why are they
angry? Do they claim to know everything? What we have stated we know from the Heavenly
Assembly, and that knowledge is coming to us from the ‘central power station’, so that if they
bring forward a statement, claim or knowledge, we know from where they are bringing it. If
anyone is angry because of these things, he is providing proof that he is not from the Assembly
of Awliya; but he who says, “I believe in this and more,” you must know that he is from within.



Al Tariqats teach people humbleness and to accept the truth. Who accompanied the Prophet
when he made his migration (Hijra) from Mecca to Medina? – Abu Bakr. And what did the
Prophet say about Abu Bakr? – “Everything My Lord put into my heart, I have put into the heart
of Abu Bakr.” Which Sheikh can come to argue with us saying, “Abu Bakr is our father in
Tariqat”? (Only the Naqshbandiyya Tariqat traces its lineage back to the Prophet through Abu
Bakr, the rest of the Tariqats came through Sayyidina Ali). Grandsheikh is the inheritor of Abu
Bakr – only ignorant people can deny this..