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Post by Saalik on Oct 2, 2009 14:13:03 GMT
Many times narrations may be used which are dubious or even inauthentic for the purpose of "showing noble qualities" or the like. If there is an Aalim or Hadith scholar on this site/forum who certifies what is posted, then it would be a great help for us laymen. If there is none here then the question may be posed on other forums or sites to see what the response is. Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuWhich part/s of what has been mentioned in this thread you feel need certification. We have an Imam but he's busy with his responsibilities. To my knowledge we don't have any Hadith Scholar on the forum but though not being one [please make Dua that I may become one ] I may try with my limited capacity to look for the references which may take little or more time. Whatever I would find I'll post. Now, to begin, can you please quote at least two narrations to which you would like the references. As for the question of posting on other forums or sites to see what the response is, I don't think there's any real need for that since there are other sites where it has been posted before. As you are the only person who has suggested this, if you still feel it's necessary then we will be grateful to you if you could please try it and give us a feedback. Thanks.
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Post by defendingislam on Oct 3, 2009 2:04:00 GMT
Salam Alaykum,
There are a number of things which may be objected to in some of the posts. For example, the narration that “Allah solves the difficulty through his (i.e. Ali's (Radhia Allahu Anhu) hand.” after which the incident of the handing of the flag to Ali was mentioned.
However, the way the narration was worded in member alijan009's post gives the impression as if all difficulties are solved through Ali, which seems like an exagerration to say the very least. So the things have to be worded properly along with the original context.
Also, the following narrations were presented:
1. Hz Aishah narrates that she said: "I saw my father (Abu Bakr Radi Allahu anhu) gazing often at 'Ali's face. I said: `O my father! I see you gazing often at 'Ali's face.' He said: `O my daughter! I heard the Prophet Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam say: "Looking at the face of `Ali is worship."'
The authenticity of the narration has to be checked in addition to its textual acceptability. That is, if indeed looking at Ali's (Radhia Allahu Anhu) face was a worship, what type of worship was it categorized as being, what were the ways to prepare for such worship, and other Fiqhi matters.
2. Likewise for the phrase "remembrance of 'Ali and speaking about him is worship." Again what is the understanding of this from a Fiqhi viewpoint, supposing that the narration is correct.
The reason why this has to be considered is that it is not merely said that speaking about Ali (Radhia Allahu Anhu) is a good deed or a great deed, but that it is worship, which means that rules come into play, since worship is not allowed in any manner we wish but is bound to Fiqhi principles.
3. The following narration:
One day when the Noble Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam) Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam was sleeping with his head in Ali alayhis 'salam's lap, the time of "Asr" (afternoon prayers) had passed. Informed by Divine revelation that he had caused Ali alayhis 'salam to miss his prayers, the Noble Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam) Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam said, "Verily, Ali alayhis 'salam was busy in the service of God and His Apostle. O Lord! Command Thy sun not to set yet and to come back into the world again so as to enable Ali alayhis 'salam to perform his prayers." The Sun re-appeared forthwith until Ali alayhis 'salam had finished his prayers.
Seems suspect from the get-go, since it is very strange and unbelievable that Ali (Radhia Allahu Anhu) would miss the Asr prayer at its early time in congregation for no specified reason and then would delay it on and on until its time passed.
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Saracen
Full Member
http://www.muslimcharity.org.uk/index.php
Posts: 451
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Post by Saracen on Oct 3, 2009 2:34:06 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
I pray you all are in the best of health and imaan, Ameen
There is only one thing i wish to add to this beautiful thread and that is ...
Teri Nasle Paak Mei Hai Bacha Bacha Noor Ka Tu Hai Aine Noor Tera Sab Gharana Noor Ka
May Allah (azza wa jall) always bless and protect the Ahle Bayt from their enemies
I am Muhammad Abdullah al Qadri - Ghulam of Ahle Bayt !!!!
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Post by Saalik on Oct 3, 2009 19:35:56 GMT
Bismillahir Rahmaanir RahimAssalaatu Wassalaamu Alayka Ya Rasoolallah Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa SallamAssalaatu Wassalaamu Alayka Ya Rasoolallah Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa SallamSalam Alaykum, There are a number of things which may be objected to in some of the posts. For example, the narration that “Allah solves the difficulty through his (i.e. Ali's (Radhia Allahu Anhu) hand.” after which the incident of the handing of the flag to Ali was mentioned. However, the way the narration was worded in member alijan009's post gives the impression as if all difficulties are solved through Ali, which seems like an exagerration to say the very least. So the things have to be worded properly along with the original context. Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuIn Sahih Bukhari, Book 031, Hadith Number 5915 it is also mentioned; (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed: "Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) called 'Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain (Alayhimus Salaam) and said: "O Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, They are My Family."So we have three occasions; Khaybar, the above one and another one. As you are very keen about it I would appreciate if you could please help to find it. This is the reference which I got: The Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) said: "To look at the face of Ali (Alayhis Salaam) is worship." (Al-Mustadrak, III, 152-153)As you have mentioned "what type of worship was it categorized as being", you must be aware that there's not only one category of worship and obviously those who were were blessed with the opportunity to look at the Blessed Face of Sayyidinah Ali Alyhis Salaam didn't considered it as that category of worship which must be dedicated to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala only. These two need a little explanation: "what were the ways to prepare for such worship" and "other Fiqhi matters"Taking care of one's parents, helping the poor etc are forms of worships, likewise speaking about Sayyidnah Ali (Alayhis Salaam) is also a form of worship which falls in the category of relating the story of the Sahaba e Kiraam (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhum) and the principle of relating it lies in the intention of the person speaking about Sayyidnah Ali (Alayhis Salaam) which can be to either induce love or hate towards him (Alayhis Salaam). By the way when one looks at the face of one's mother with a pleasing face and that makes the mother feels loved by his child, it is also a form of Ibaadat (worship) and the basic rules are simply a good intention and the correct facial expression.
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Post by Saalik on Oct 3, 2009 19:56:17 GMT
Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahim
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
Assalaatu Wassalaamu Alayka Ya Rasoolallah Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam
THE SUN RISES AGAIN : Hazrat Aasma bint Umais (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anha) states that once the Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) performed his Asr Salaah and was resting on the blessed lap of Hazrat Ali (Alayhis Salaam) at a place called Sahba. Hazrat Ali (Alayhis Salaam) had not performed his Asar Salaah as yet. After some time, the sun went down. The Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) asked Sayyiduna Ali (Alayhis Salaam) if he had performed his Asr Salaah and he answered in the negative. The Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) then said, “Allahuma Innahu Kaana fi Taa’atika wa Taa ati Rasoolika Fardud alaihish shamsa” “(O Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala! He was obeying You and Your Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam). Bring back the sun for him).”
Sayyida Aasma (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anha) says, “I saw that the sun had already set, then I saw it began to rise again and its rays shone on the mountains and on the ground.” (Shifa Shareef - Mawahib Laduniyah - Khasaais-e-Kubra)
While a handful stay within the frame of suspicions, the majority see in it the Miracle of our Beloved Master Sayyidinah Muhammad (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) and the True Love of Sayyidinah Ali (Alayhis Salaam) for Sayyidinah Rasoolullah (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam). His sacrifice was in the Love of his Beloved Master Sayyidinah Muhammad (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam), he knew that even Ibaadat is through the Blessing of the Beloved Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam). Furthermore the majority sees Sayyidinah Ali (Alayhis Salaam) as acting upon a Sunnah reinforced by the Qur'an Shareef.
Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Hadith Number 0070.
Chapter : It is obligatory to love the Prophet more than the members of one's household: one's child, father or even the whole of humanity.
It is reported on the authority of Anas (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) that the Messenger of Allah (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa sallam) said: "No bondsman believes, and, in the hadith narrated by Abdul Warith (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu), no person believes, till I am dearer to him than the members of his household, his wealth and the whole of mankind."
Tafsir Ibn Kathir: Loyalty to the Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam); and His Wives (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhuma) are Mothers of the Believers.
Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala tells us how His Messenger (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa sallam) is merciful and sincere towards his Ummah, and how He is closer to them than they are to themselves. His judgement or ruling takes precedence over their own choices for themselves, as Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says:
(But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept with full submission.) (4:65)
In the Sahih it says: (By the One in Whose Hand is My Soul, none of you truly believes until I am dearer to him than his own self, his wealth, his children and all the people.) It was also reported in the Sahih that `Umar (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) said: "O Messenger of Allah (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa sallam) , by Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, You are dearer to me than everything except myself.''
He (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa sallam) said, "No, O `Umar, not until I am dearer to you than yourself."
`Umar (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) said: "O Messenger of Allah (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa sallam), by Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, now You are dearer to me than everything, even myself.''
He (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa sallam) said, "Now, O `Umar [you have got it right].) Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala says in this Ayah:
The Prophet is closer to the believers than themselves. (Surah Al Ahzab 33, verse 6)
Concerning this Ayah, Al-Bukhari (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) narrated from Abu Hurayrah (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu), that the Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa sallam) said:
"There is no believer except I am the closest of all people to him in this world and in the Hereafter. Recite, if you wish: (The Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa sallam) is closer to the believers than themselves."
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Post by Saalik on Oct 3, 2009 20:25:30 GMT
Bismillahir Rahmaanir RahimAssalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuAssalaatu Wassalaamu Alayka Ya Rasoolallah Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa SallamAnother version
On the return from The Battle of Khaibar, the Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) prayed His Asr Salaah and lay down to rest on the lap of Hazrat Ali (Alayhis Salaam) at a place called Sahba. Hazrat Ali (Alayhis Salaam) had not yet prayed his Asr Salaah. He watched the sun setting and the time of Asr about to expire, but he did not move his lap, as he did not want to disturb the Prophet (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam), thinking that he may be having a dream (a Nabi's dream is also Revelation). Finally the sun had set. When Huzoor (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) woke, Hazrat Ali (Alayhis Salaam) explained what had happened. The Prophet (Alayhis Salaam) commanded the sun to rise again and the sun rose from the west. Hazrat Ali (Alayhis Salaam) prayed his Asr Salaah and the sun then set.
It is in relation to this event that A'la Hazrat' Azeem al-Barkat, Mujaddid al-Deen al-Millat, Imam-e-Ahl as-Sunnat, Ash-Shah Imam Ahmad Raza Khan Al-Qadiri Fadil al-Bareilly (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) wrote the following couplets:“Sooraj Ulte Paaoun palte chand ishaare se ho chaak,
Andhe Najdi dekh le Qudrat Rasoolullah ki.”
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Post by Sag E Dargah E Jilani on Oct 3, 2009 21:19:28 GMT
Listen to the 1st min of this and the waqiah saalik bhai has said is being told in qawali form
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Post by defendingislam on Oct 4, 2009 2:36:17 GMT
This was the reference provided:
(Shifa Shareef - Mawahib Laduniyah - Khasaais-e-Kubra)
Do you have any more reference for this, perhaps a scan of the original Arabic?
Questioning the authenticity of a text when it is clear that it contravenes to well-established rules of Islam is part of the rules for establishing our religion.
No one is denying that the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) could have been given the miracle to keep the sun from setting, or from making the sun come back up after it had set. Also no one is denying that the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) is to be dearer to us than ourselves.
However, to describe missing an obligation of Islam as a "sacrifice" is incorrect to say the very least. Missing a prescribed prayer in its proper time is not a personal choice. Our attachment to the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) is by doing what he commanded us to do and abstaining from that which he said should be refrained from. To describe one of the best from among the Sahabah as having purposefully missed the congregational prayers for no apparent reason is not a merit, but a slander.
Note that the objection to this particular narration is not because of the miracle being described, nor because we should honor the Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) in many different ways, but at the insinuation that missing an obligatory prayer is acceptable even when the action being performed instead is praiseworthy.
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Post by Saalik on Oct 4, 2009 7:45:08 GMT
This was the reference provided: (Shifa Shareef - Mawahib Laduniyah - Khasaais-e-Kubra) Do you have any more reference for this, perhaps a scan of the original Arabic? Auzu Billaahi Minash Shaitaanir Rajim Bismillahir Rahmanir RaheemWill it be possible for you to countercheck it if it is provided? In one of your reply you briefly mentioned "after which the incident of the handing of the flag" etc, but you didn't checked if the references or contents of the Ahadith Shareef about the handing of the flag were correct. I find this curious that while you seem to be very keen about reference and authencity and voice it high, you didn't even bother to countercheck when you read the Ahadith Shareef (about the flag) before replying. Before trying to venture in the ocean, let's see if we know a little about the shore. We will consider a few situations in different context: 1. How will we interpret the situation of one who at the exact time of prayer feels a need to attend to the call of nature (whether urgent or light), but instead of relieving himself, that person goes forward in the row so as not to miss a congregational prayer on due time.
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Post by defendingislam on Oct 4, 2009 15:35:31 GMT
What is meant by a category of worship that is not dedicated only to Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala, since I am confused about this statement.
I am not a Hadith master, and I suppose that neither are you, which is why I asked for a Muhadith to explore the soundness of these narrations. If such a person does not exist on this forum, then this can be done in other places, whether through e-mail of Aalims, on forums, etc.
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Post by Saalik on Oct 4, 2009 19:14:33 GMT
Auzu Billahi Minash Shaitaanir Rajim Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahim
In Salaat which is worship, when we start reading Surah Faatiha, we say Alhamdulillah (All Praises are for Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala). Here our worship (Praise of Allah Subhaaanhu wa Ta'ala) is dedicated to Allah Subhaanahu Wa Ta'alaa only. During Haj, pilgrims raise their hands in duas (worship) while looking at the kaabah Shareef but in their intention they are asking from Allah Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala only. These are examples of categories of worship dedicated to Allah Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala only.
Everyday when performing Salaah we say All Praises are for Allah Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala and we firmly believe in it but when we listen to a live Qir'at (which is ibaadat-worship) we are impressed and touched by the Qa'ri's beautiful recitation and while still looking at him we praise Allah Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala via saying Subhaanallah and also express praises about him (the Qa'ri) which is a good deed (worship) as it is opposed to cursing etc. Here it's a different kind of worship (good deed) where praise of a creature of Allah Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala is also involved.
I don't think you will disagree about the fact that apart from you no one has objected to their soundness, therefore it is incumbent upon you to take the initiative to also do the search in other places, whether through e-mail of Aalims, on forums, etc. In this way your doubts will be either cleared or confirmed, after that the choice between belief and disbelief, in these narrations, will be easy for you.
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