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Post by Saalik on Dec 18, 2012 10:26:23 GMT
Assalamu alaykum, Muwakalaat can be obtained ( i have heard) by reciting certain things. However muwakalaat do not cause harm? If you are able to recite in th 100s you may be able to get muwakalaat. Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuBrother there's a condition to everything like getting something etc from recitations. We don't obtain the muwakkalaat but can take help from them after becoming capable. From what I've learn, there are jamaali and jalaali muwakkalaat, the jalaali one are not easy to bring under control, their fiery influence can easily cause certain type of harms to the person trying to bring them under control. Just reciting in the hundreds is not enough, there are conditions and methods (without which things go wrong) attached to that. walaykum salaaam, What is muwakalaat as there is no evidence in quran and haeeth for their existance? Can we recite asma ul husna once a day or even twice a day i.e once in the morning and evening? Muwakkalaat is the term used for angels in amaliyaat. The evidence of angels is well present in Qur'an Shareef and Hadith Shareef. You can safely recite asma ul husna once or even twice a day (in the morning and evening).
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thc
Senior Member
Posts: 3,270
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Post by thc on Dec 18, 2012 21:45:19 GMT
assalamualaykum,
if muwakalaat are angels then angels always obey allah and therefore cannot harm humans as they do not sin. can you elaborate.
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Post by Saalik on Dec 19, 2012 14:12:38 GMT
assalamualaykum, if muwakalaat are angels then angels always obey allah and therefore cannot harm humans as they do not sin. can you elaborate. Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuAs you have already mentioned, angels always obey Allah Ta'ala therefore they are always doing ibaadah for Allah Ta'ala. Logical explanation: Trying to bring them under control is an act of disturbing them from their ibaadah. One who is being repeatedly disturbed and distracted (due to the act of being summoned by a human being) from ibaadah will not simply react with a smile and if the reaction or self defense is severe to the extent of causing harm then it cannot be regarded as a sin. If one tries to bang his head against a protective wall to get what is on the other side of the wall, it's not the fault of the one who has erected the wall but the one who is banging his head against that wall to break it for his own purpose. One with a character of a lion will not react as a sheep and it's legitimate. Depending upon their force of resistance by their nature every creature reacts according to it, be it an elephant, a lion or an angel. It's not necessary that these creatures attack to cause harm, their natural force of resistance and self defense mechanisms are enough to cause harm. This can never be sin.
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Post by Saalik on Dec 19, 2012 14:56:58 GMT
if muwakalaat are angels then angels always obey allah and therefore cannot harm humans as they do not sin. can you elaborate. Bismillahir Rahmanir RaheemAn example in Hadith where it is mentioned that angel can cause harm by the order of Allah Ta'ala. Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Hadith Number 4360.Chapter : The help with angels in Badr and the permissibility of the spoils of war.Abu Zumail (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) said that the hadith was narrated to him by Ibn 'Abbas (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) who said: While on that day a Muslim was chasing a disbeliever who was going ahead of him, he heard over him' the swishing of the whip and the voice of the rider saying: Go ahead, Haizi'm ! He glanced at the polytheist who had (now) fallen down on his back. When he looked at him (carefully he found that) there was a scar on his nose and his face was torn as if it had been lashed with a whip, and had turned green with its poison. An Ansari came to the Messenger of Allah (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi wa Sallam) and related this (event) to him. He(Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi wa Sallam) said: You have told the truth. This was the help from the third heaven.........................
After battle, people used to recognize those who were killed by the Angels, by wounds over their necks, finger and toes, because those parts had a mark as if they were branded by Fire. There are many other examples where angels (while executing Allah's command to punish a group of people) indirectly cause harm to innocent people.
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thc
Senior Member
Posts: 3,270
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Post by thc on Dec 19, 2012 21:07:36 GMT
assalamualaykum,
The answer you gave was something i have not heard before and it did make sense but if a muwakalaat is gained under ones force does it remain under the force of the human all its life? Can it not escape?
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Post by observer on Dec 20, 2012 11:36:04 GMT
Jazaak Allah Khayran From your understanding what's your spiritual self and what is your aim in strengthening it? How do you know what you need for your zikr? What makes you think it works when you do it the way you do? Can you please explain in details how do you proceed to do the zikr. What do you read in thousands; a specific Name of Allah Ta'ala or the 99 Names of Allah Ta'ala and how much time do take to read only one ism 1000 times? Any reason why before that you read more than 500. I mean is it stated in any book. What makes you think they are Muslims jinns? When you dream, do you know in which alam you are? How do you feel the presence of the evil jinns outside the hisar? For now I am still doing the zikr but limiting it to 33x for each Asma. So far no disturbances But I don't get the same satisfaction like I get when I do them in the hundreds. Based on what you decided to limit the recitation to 33 for each ism and based on what you read them in the hundreds? Can you describe the satisfaction you get?
You said that you don't believe Muslims are allowed to ask the muwakkalaat for any help. Why do you believe so? That's enough for today, please answer at your own convenience, no hurry etc. After you have answered I may ask some more questions in relation to your answers. If I see there's no need to ask, then I'll ask some questions related to your recent replies. Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Wow that is a LOT of questions Will try to answer as best as I could. Not sure where I read it, probably in a religious book, that doing Asma Ul Husna zikr is good for the soul, makes it stronger if you have any weakness you want to fix. I just went through the 99 names and chose names that I felt will help me. I did not use any system or any type of method, just pure feel. I did the zikr after wajib prayers. At first it was 33, then i increased to hundreds, again based on feel. Doing only 33 feels like taking small portion of food, not enough to satisfy the hunger. Doing zikr in the hundreds is much better for me personally. I believe some of the jinns were Muslims because they did offer salam to me in the dream and wanted to help me to fight the evil ones. I cannot differentiate between my dream worlds but when the jinns disturb, their world is quite distinct. You feel danger everywhere and their sky had a lot of orange and yellow in them. You are dragged into their world when they attack , whether you want it or not. So you end up cannot sleep, because when you sleep they will torment. You have very little powerless in their world. As for the hisar, I felt their presence and anger being blocked from entering the house They also made a lot of angry, animal kind of noise. Personally, I am not convinced the Muwakkalat are angels. They are only powerful good jinns, so we cannot ask them for help directly. I don't believe humans have the power to control Angels nor ask them for help directly. They are the most loyal of God's creation and they will only help us if God wishes or allows for them do so.
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Post by Saalik on Dec 22, 2012 9:30:52 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Sorry for that as it was supposed to be a few . Reading the Asma al Husna is indeed good for the soul etc. but it must be read as prescribed and not as per one's feel. When it has been prescribed to read a certain number of times (except when recommended to recite abundantly) for any particular purpose, reading more than that will not make it more efficient. Fresh carrot juice is from the bounties of Allah Ta'ala and is very good for people with a weak immune system, skin problem and also very good for eyesight. Too much carrot juice overloads the liver, and the skin can appear sallow. Normally one should drink no more than 0,5 liter of carrot juice per day. Likewise the Asma al Husna should not be read more than prescribed. We must not ignore or underestimate the power induced in the Asma al Husna by Allah Ta'ala. About Yaa Jabbar it is written that anyone who really believe in the invincible power of Allah Ta'ala and expect the power he must read it 21 times in the morning and evening. Allah Ta'ala willing, he will be spared from the threat of people and those who do wrong. Reading more than that will not cause the required effect to be greater. About Yaa Mutakabbir it is written that if someone is reading as much as 10 times before intercourse with his wife, they will get a pious son. Reading more than that will not cause the child to be more pious. It's probable but offering salaam is not a guaranty as even non Muslims too offer salaam. Jinns can be very deceptive; nowadays there are some innovators roaming from countries to countries with the title of Sheikh claiming to make non-Muslim jinns revert to Islam. What they do is to make an individual invoke jinns one after the other while the so called Sheikh recites Qur'anic verses to overpower the jinn. When the jinn can no longer bear the effects of the recitation of the Qur'anic verses he submits and the so called Sheikh invites him to Islam and makes him recite the Kalimah. It's like certain police officers torturing an individual to make him confess something he doesn't want to and to escape the torture the invidual finally confesses verbally without accepting the guilt in his heart. The deviants are quick to say that what was not in practice religiously during the time of the Beloved Prophet Sayyidinah Muhammad (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) and the first 3 generations of Pious Muslims is innovation but some peole belonging to the same class of deviants are nowadays making a type so called dawah to jinns (not practised before) without having the capacity to know whether the jinn has really accepted Islam or not.................... When this happens you are distracted and you can't know when and how the accursed shaytaan can lure you especially when you are not Mureed to a Shaykh and are doing all these without the permission and guidance of an accomplished Spiritual Master. Brother Musafir rightly mentioned about heightened sense of mind or heart, whereby Muwakkalaat play with the imagination/perception............People easily mistake the illusions as true spiritual visions. Brother, muwakkalaat cannot be jinns because jinns can be disobedient whereas angels are obedient and free from sin, the reason why the protection of paak kalaams are assigned to them. Both jinns and angels can take different shapes and the Asma al Husna is protected by angels in other forms and not jinns. Human beings in general don't have the power to control Angels but apart from the Awliyah of Allah Ta'ala, accomplished Aamils can do so by certain amaliyaat. As for asking help from Angels in a way, here's a jayyid (good) and maqbul (acceptable) hadith proof which has a hasan (fair) chain: Al-Bazzar (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) transmitted it in his Musnad (Kashf al-Astar, 4/33-34)Musa Ibn Ishaq (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) related to us from Manjab Ibn Al-Harith(Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu), Hatim Ibn Isma’il (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) related to us from Usamah Ibn Zayd (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) from Aban Ibn Salih (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) from Mujahid (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) from Ibn Abbas (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) that the Messenger of Allah (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) said: ‘Indeed Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala) possesses Angels besides the Hafazah (the Angels of Protection) who write (of even) the leaf which falls from a tree so when one of you suffers a limp in a deserted land he should call “Assist (me) O slaves of Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala)”’ P.S. When reading in the thousands how much time do you take to read only one Ism e Paak 1000 times?
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Post by Saalik on Dec 22, 2012 9:55:56 GMT
assalamualaykum, The answer you gave was something i have not heard before and it did make sense but if a muwakalaat is gained under ones force does it remain under the force of the human all its life? Can it not escape? Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuIn reality the Angels are not gained by force but can be controlled by the permission of Allah Ta'ala. They are in fact compelled because of the amal (recitation of specific Qur'anic verses, Asmal al Husna and Darood Shareef) that is done by the Aamil. From what I've heard, as long as the person makes proper use of the Muwakkalaat it helps but when the person crosses the way it doesn't and when it leaves it is always with curses. Similarly when a Paak Jinn leaves a person who chooses the wrong path he curses the person.
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Post by Saalik on Dec 22, 2012 10:09:58 GMT
Probably the safest place to do extended Zikr session without a Shaykh's guidance is at the mosque because it is clean from bad jinns. No Brother, even in a Masjid it's not safe as you'll be disturbing the good jinns. I think some of us on the forum may have heard things like people being slapped or ousted out of the Masjid by invisible forces because they were doing certain type of amal therein.
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thc
Senior Member
Posts: 3,270
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Post by thc on Dec 22, 2012 18:25:41 GMT
assalamualaykum,
if someone does a wazaif and makes a mistake is that person going to be insane all his/her life due to the effects of reciting incorrectly.
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Post by Saalik on Dec 22, 2012 18:58:04 GMT
assalamualaykum, if someone does a wazaif and makes a mistake is that person going to be insane all his/her life due to the effects of reciting incorrectly. Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuGenerally it's not by mistake that people go insane but by reciting jalali wazaif regularly without spiritual permission or guidance. A permission or a spiritual guide acts as a filter which filters the extra spiritual effects that the individual is not in the capacity to digest spiritually. The able one who gives permission for a particular wazifa must himself act or must have himself acted upon it regularly for a certain period of time.
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Post by Sag E Dargah E Jilani on Dec 22, 2012 22:35:07 GMT
assalamualaykum, if someone does a wazaif and makes a mistake is that person going to be insane all his/her life due to the effects of reciting incorrectly. He can be cured with the nigah of a kamil wali.
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Post by Saalik on Dec 23, 2012 7:52:28 GMT
Bismillahir Rahmaanir Rahim
Sahih Muslim, Book 029, Hadith Number 5616.
Abu Qatada (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) reported Allah's Messenger (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) as saying: A good vision is from Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala) and a bad dream (hulm) is from the satan; so if one of you sees anything (in a dream which he dislikes, he should spit on his left side thrice and seek refuge with Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala) from its evil, and then it will never harm him. Abu Salama (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) said: I used to see dreams weighing more heavily upon me than a mountain; but since I heard this hadith I don't care for it (its burden).
Sahih Muslim, Book 029, Hadith Number 5621.
Abu Huraira (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu) reported Allah's Messenger (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi Wa Sallam) as saying: When the time draws near (when the Resurrection is near) a believer's dream can hardly be false. And the truest vision will be of one who is himself the most truthful in speech, for the vision of a Muslim is the forty-fifth part of Prophecy, and dreams are of three types: one good dream which is a sort of good tidings from Allah (Subhaanahu Wa Ta'ala); the evil dream which causes pain is from the satan; and the third one is a suggestion of one's own mind; so if any one of you sees a dream which he does not like he should stand tip and offer prayer and he should not relate it to people, and he said: I would love to see fetters (in the dream), but I dislike wearing of necklace, for the fetters is (an indication of) one's steadfastness in religion. The narrator said: I do not know whether this is a part of the hadith or the words of Ibn Sirin (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhu).
Tabari and Hakim in Mishkaat al Masaabeeh vol 2 p 883
There are three types of jinn: one which flies in the air all of the time, another which exists as snakes and dogs, and an earthbound type which resides in one place or wanders about.
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Post by observer on Dec 26, 2012 2:40:31 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Reading the Asma al Husna is indeed good for the soul etc. but it must be read as prescribed and not as per one's feel. When it has been prescribed to read a certain number of times (except when recommended to recite abundantly) for any particular purpose, reading more than that will not make it more efficient. Since I have no access to a Shaykh, I have to adjust. For me using feel seems to work. You try an ism and see if it makes you feel better. If it does, keep it for your zikr but if it doesn't then you move on to the next one. About the number of recitations, I am not sure if it is important to build up the soul but if doing for amal, then it may be useful. To add to my description, these jinns were also the only ones which can penetrate the hisar and come close to me. So I take it to be Muslim jinns. Also they was less ugly than the evil ones The creature was trying to get me join his side by giving me an ordinary looking sword to fight the bad spirits but I was not willing to do it. Going to war with a couple of 20 foot demons with a 12 inch steel blade is not really a fair fight for me. ;D BTW, I am just wondering, what happens if you get hurt or even worse get killed in the jinn world? Can you come back or do you actually really die? In my ordinary dreams, I do get hurt sometimes but I get to come back in one piece but I am not sure if the same thing is true if we get hurt in the dreamworld influenced by jinns. I believe that if we are doing an amal then we need permission from a Shaykh but if we are just doing zikr with Asma Ul Husna then a permission is not necessary because it is something Muslims are already advised to do. I don't think doing amal and doing zikr is the same thing although they may share certain similarities. For me, I am trying to avoid doing an amal because I don't think I can handle a muwakkalat, whether they are jinns or angels. From what I read, you need to be very disciplined for the rest of your life if you have a muwakkalat helping you because they can turn on their master if you don't comply or make the slightest mistake. So far I haven't come across any recently although my daily zikr can go up to a few thousand isms. Usually in about 15 to 20 minutes for a single ism. A speedy and excellent spiritual booster in my opinion
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thc
Senior Member
Posts: 3,270
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Post by thc on Dec 26, 2012 20:17:11 GMT
assalamu alaykum,
if these jinns are seen in dreams the dreams may not be true?
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Post by observer on Dec 28, 2012 0:10:14 GMT
assalamu alaykum, if these jinns are seen in dreams the dreams may not be true? Wa'alaykum 'Assalam wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu These dreams are not the ordinary dreams we used to have. You think you are dreaming but you are actually dragged in to the world of jinns by them. And when they attack, you can go there very easily like in a minute or two after sleeping. Sometimes they even appear when you close your eyes longer than a few seconds when you are awake! Fascinating experience but something I want to avoid for long time
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Bint e Attar
Senior Member
Duniya kare par tu na karna muj ko rad.. Ya Allah..
Posts: 4,310
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Post by Bint e Attar on Jan 2, 2013 12:30:48 GMT
Not sure where I read it, probably in a religious book, that doing Asma Ul Husna zikr is good for the soul, makes it stronger if you have any weakness you want to fix. I just went through the 99 names and chose names that I felt will help me. I did not use any system or any type of method, just pure feel. Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa BarakatuhuThe Prophet (peace be upn him) never did anything without consulting Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala and the Sahaba Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhum (his companions). It is sunnah for us to do likewise. Our Grandshaykh tells us that no matter how clever a man may be, he is still in need of conultation.
Once, according to Our Grandshaykh, a certain king was speaking with his grand vizier. "Tell me," asked the king, "Why does a man need to consult with another? Doesn't he have eyes to see with, and a mind with which to decide what to do?"
"O, my king," replied the vizier, "While it is true that a man has eyes it is also true that he can never use them to see himself. On that point, each of us is blind!"
We learn correctness quickly with conultation. Everyone must have a consultant, or 'mustashar.' We must also know that if a man wishes to follow on the footsteps of the Prophet (peace be upon him), he must have a shaykh. He must ask Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'ala to send him a teacher.
"What are the good characters of a conultant?" asks our Grandshaykh. "You must be satisfied in your heart with his adab, his manners and mentality, and his din, his religious actions. The Prophet (peace be upon him) for example, consulted with his wives."
His was the way of gentleness. His manner for asking for help would be to initiate the action himself. For instance, he might say to his wife, "May I put that jar over there?" Quickly she would understand, and pick it up herself. This is good manners, you can't find this anywhere. Or, perhaps Rasul-ullah (peace be upon him) would place the jar himself, thus showing respect for his wife and raising her to his level. If a wife was listening closely enough to place the jar herself, it would be better for her that forty years of nafl (voluntary, or superogatory) prayers. His giving her this chance increases domestic pleasure.
His was the way of consultation. When men consult each other, love and respect grow. "You have the best character," Allah Almighty says of Muhammad (peace be upon him). People would reply to the Prophet (peace be upon him), "O, Muhammad! You know best," whenever he would ask them a question.
Thus, social harmony is completed by consultation. Through commanding comes hatred, disrespect, and wildness. If all people practiced consultation, there would be the highest form of civilization and perfection.
I found this from a 'Mercy Ocean' written By Shaykh Nazim Damat Barkatum ul Aaliyah.. this may help u to understand why just following once feeling on choosing a wazaif may not be the right thing to do.. esp when one doesnt know if that what they feel is from themself or from their nafs.. and u shouldnt underestimate ur nafs.. eshaykh.com/ask-a-question/
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Post by observer on Jan 5, 2013 5:15:19 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
I agree that if we are doing a wazaif then we may need permission but doing a pure zikr to strengthen the heart after prayers should not require permission.
The benefits of doing pure zikr are HUGE. One of the best I found is that it really helps to reduce the sleep time. My 6 to 8 hours a day sleep was brought down to 3 to 4 hours a day and still feel very fresh when I do pure zikr.
Also from my experience, for quick improvements the ism of the zikr you use should match your actual real world strengths. If you are an athlete, then you should use the ism which will support those athletic abilities and if you are an artist, you should use those ism that will support artistic abilities.
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Post by Sag E Dargah E Jilani on Jan 5, 2013 11:01:50 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu I agree that if we are doing a wazaif then we may need permission but doing a pure zikr to strengthen the heart after prayers should not require permission. The benefits of doing pure zikr are HUGE. One of the best I found is that it really helps to reduce the sleep time. My 6 to 8 hours a day sleep was brought down to 3 to 4 hours a day and still feel very fresh when I do pure zikr. Also from my experience, for quick improvements the ism of the zikr you use should match your actual real world strengths. If you are an athlete, then you should use the ism which will support those athletic abilities and if you are an artist, you should use those ism that will support artistic abilities. Where is Syed Mohammed Rehan Al Hussaini Qadiri Shah Sahib when you need him? What you do is your choice but if you make a mistake in your zikr then you may live to regret it. Just get permission from an amil or peer or Allama and you will be ok Inshallah.
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Post by Saalik on Jan 5, 2013 19:20:23 GMT
Assalamu 'Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu
Brother Observer, what is your opinion on the following:
Celebration of Meelaad un Nabi (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi wa Sallam)
Celebration of Urs Shareef of Sahaba e Kiram and Awliya e Kiraam (Radi Allahu Ta'ala Anhum)
Asking from Sayyidinah Rasoolullah (Sallal Laahu Ta'ala Alayhi wa Sallam) and from the Awliya e Kiraam (Rahmatullahi Ta'ala Alayhim).
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